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	<title>New Zealand Climate Change</title>
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		<title>New Zealand Climate Change</title>
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		<title>Who cares about the &#8216;consensus&#8217;</title>
		<link>http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2012/02/10/who-cares-about-the-consensus/</link>
		<comments>http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2012/02/10/who-cares-about-the-consensus/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 22:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>newzealandclimate</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Science Communication]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[consensus]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[This is a very quick post, as I am a little challenged for time at the moment. I came accross a very good post over at Climate etc. regarding the &#8216;consensus&#8216;. One of the most interesting arguments that I picked &#8230; <a href="http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2012/02/10/who-cares-about-the-consensus/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a><img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com&amp;blog=21093587&amp;post=248&amp;subd=newzealandclimatechange&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a very quick post, as I am a little challenged for time at the moment.</p>
<p>I came accross a very good post over at Climate etc. regarding the &#8216;<a href="http://judithcurry.com/2012/02/06/consensus-or-not/" target="_blank">consensus</a>&#8216;. One of the most interesting arguments that I picked up was that we should not care about the consensus argument, as consensus is not the benchmark of good science. Judith Currie wades into the question with the following:</p>
<blockquote><p>The climate community worked for 20 years to establish a consensus.  The impact of the consensus probably peaked in 2006-2007, at the time of publication of the AR4.  Courtesy of the CRU emails, we now understand the sausage making that went into creating the consensus.  Manufacturing a consensus in the context of the IPCC has acted to hyper-politicize the scientific and policy debate, to the detriment of both.  Its time to abandon the concept of consensus; <em>consensus matters far less than simply being right</em> and <em>the arguments themselves that ought to be the focus for discussion.</em></p></blockquote>
<p>My concern about the use of the supposed consensus to stifle the debate is more mundane. For most people, there is only a limited interest in the climate change debate. Unlike those who take an active interest, they are not going to delve into philosophy of science, or read the complex discussions about what is good and what is not good science. I suspect that, for many people, the idea of a consensus of scientists will simply be taken as being an indicator of the truth of the argument.</p>
<p>I agree that there is a difficulty of what the consensus might be about &#8211; e.g. the planet has warmed versus we are all doomed if we do not change our behaviour &#8211; but this is perhaps not how most of the public might see it. The way that the consensus is presented is that there is broad agreement on the latter of my two examples.</p>
<p>As such, I think the promotion of the idea of a consensus really matters. It is important that we take into account the nature of the interest of most people in the climate change debate, and recognise that those who are less interested will often only take home simple messages from what they hear/see/read. The message of a &#8216;consensus&#8217; is powerful, and is therefore worth addressing.</p>
<br />Filed under: <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/category/science-communication/'>Science Communication</a> Tagged: <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/tag/consensus/'>consensus</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gocomments/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/248/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/comments/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/248/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godelicious/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/248/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/delicious/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/248/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gofacebook/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/248/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/facebook/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/248/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gotwitter/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/248/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/twitter/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/248/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gostumble/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/248/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/stumble/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/248/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godigg/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/248/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/digg/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/248/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/goreddit/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/248/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/reddit/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/248/" /></a> <img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com&amp;blog=21093587&amp;post=248&amp;subd=newzealandclimatechange&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></content:encoded>
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			<media:title type="html">newzealandclimate</media:title>
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		<title>The Impact of Climategate II</title>
		<link>http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2012/01/29/the-impact-of-climategate-ii/</link>
		<comments>http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2012/01/29/the-impact-of-climategate-ii/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jan 2012 03:51:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>newzealandclimate</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Climategate 2]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Intolerance]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Science Communication]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[The 'Consensus']]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[climategate 2]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[de Freitas]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/?p=245</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There has been a lot of talk of that Climategate 2 has had less impact than the original climate gate. My own contribution to the revelations was to reveal the horrendous story in which the &#8216;team&#8217; sought to have a &#8230; <a href="http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2012/01/29/the-impact-of-climategate-ii/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a><img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com&amp;blog=21093587&amp;post=245&amp;subd=newzealandclimatechange&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There has been a lot of talk of that Climategate 2 has had less impact than the original climate gate. My own contribution to the revelations was to reveal the horrendous story in which the &#8216;team&#8217; sought to have <a href="http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2011/11/27/climategate-2-and-corruption-of-peer-review/">a journal editor sacked</a> for allowing the publication of an article that disagreed with their views. It was a clear case of an attempt to corrupt peer reviewed science. As such, I was pleased to find an open letter in the <a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204301404577171531838421366.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTo">Wall Street Journal</a>, which is written by scientists concerned at the nature and tenor of the debate on climate change. This is the discussion of the sacking.</p>
<blockquote><p>Although the number of publicly dissenting scientists is growing, many young scientists furtively say that while they also have serious doubts about the global-warming message, they are afraid to speak up for fear of not being promoted—or worse. They have good reason to worry. In 2003, Dr. Chris de Freitas, the editor of the journal Climate Research, dared to publish a peer-reviewed article with the politically incorrect (but factually correct) conclusion that the recent warming is not unusual in the context of climate changes over the past thousand years. The international warming establishment quickly mounted a determined campaign to have Dr. de Freitas removed from his editorial job and fired from his university position. Fortunately, Dr. de Freitas was able to keep his university job.</p></blockquote>
<p>It is indeed very sad that association with positions  contrary to some people might be met with this kind of behaviour. However, the letter also covers some other points worth mentioning. For example:</p>
<blockquote><p>A candidate for public office in any contemporary democracy may have to consider what, if anything, to do about &#8220;global warming.&#8221; Candidates should understand that the oft-repeated claim that nearly all scientists demand that something dramatic be done to stop global warming is not true. In fact, a large and growing number of distinguished scientists and engineers do not agree that drastic actions on global warming are needed.</p>
<p>In September, Nobel Prize-winning physicist Ivar Giaever, a supporter of President Obama in the last election, publicly resigned from the American Physical Society (APS) with a letter that begins: &#8220;I did not renew [my membership] because I cannot live with the [APS policy] statement: &#8216;The evidence is incontrovertible: Global warming is occurring. If no mitigating actions are taken, significant disruptions in the Earth&#8217;s physical and ecological systems, social systems, security and human health are likely to occur. We must reduce emissions of greenhouse gases beginning now.&#8217; In the APS it is OK to discuss whether the mass of the proton changes over time and how a multi-universe behaves, but the evidence of global warming is incontrovertible?&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>I remember reading the Ivar Giaever open letter, and should really have posted/commented upon it. I have also read about other shenanigans in which some have tried to manufacture the consensus through manipulation of statistics for support for climate alarmism (sorry, no reference to hand).</p>
<p>My guess is that, without the fear of career damage, the quest for grants, the dubious &#8216;consensus&#8217; would look even more threadbare than it already is. For example, many years ago I heard a BBC Radio 4 interview* in which an anthropologist was researching the impact of climate change on hunter gatherers in Scandinavia. The interviewer was interested in climate change, but it was very clear that all the anthropologist wanted to do was discuss the interesting facets of the culture of the people under study. No doubt, the addition of climate change in his application for a research grant was useful.</p>
<p>Perhaps one day it will be possible for climate science to return to &#8216;normal science&#8217; (I am aware that this is a problematic phrase, but seeking to stop contrary views is not &#8216;normal&#8217; science in any reasonable interpretation). It certainly seems that the right questions are now being asked. In some ways, this may be of benefit to the wider realm of science; as anyone who is involved in critical positions on any subject will tell you, the effort of getting critiques of established thinking is always a challenge. I can only hope that, in addition to all of the negative aspects of climate science, there is a possibility that it will, in the end, raise some fundamental questions and encourage a more open approach to science.</p>
<p>In the meantime, sadly, the climate debate will be restricted by an oppressive system that seeks to stifle any contrary views. To be more positive, this may be on the road to change&#8230;..</p>
<p>*I am sorry to have two items unreferenced. For the 2nd example, it really was a long, long time ago&#8230;..</p>
<br />Filed under: <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/category/climategate-2/'>Climategate 2</a>, <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/category/intolerance/'>Intolerance</a>, <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/category/science-communication/'>Science Communication</a>, <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/category/the-consensus/'>The 'Consensus'</a> Tagged: <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/tag/climategate-2-2/'>climategate 2</a>, <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/tag/de-freitas/'>de Freitas</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gocomments/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/245/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/comments/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/245/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godelicious/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/245/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/delicious/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/245/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gofacebook/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/245/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/facebook/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/245/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gotwitter/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/245/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/twitter/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/245/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gostumble/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/245/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/stumble/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/245/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godigg/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/245/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/digg/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/245/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/goreddit/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/245/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/reddit/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/245/" /></a> <img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com&amp;blog=21093587&amp;post=245&amp;subd=newzealandclimatechange&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>The Professor de Freitas Story and Wikipedia</title>
		<link>http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2012/01/14/the-professor-de-freitas-story-and-wikipedia/</link>
		<comments>http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2012/01/14/the-professor-de-freitas-story-and-wikipedia/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jan 2012 23:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>newzealandclimate</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Climategate 2]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[climategate 2]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[de Freitas]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Michael Mann]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Zealand Herald]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Wikipedia]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/?p=241</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have just found an update on the story of Professor de Freitas, and the attempts to have him sacked for allowing the publication of a dissenting article on climate change. Wattsupwiththat has recently published a post which details the &#8230; <a href="http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2012/01/14/the-professor-de-freitas-story-and-wikipedia/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a><img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com&amp;blog=21093587&amp;post=241&amp;subd=newzealandclimatechange&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have just found an update on the story of Professor de Freitas, and the <a href="http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2011/11/27/climategate-2-and-corruption-of-peer-review/" target="_blank">attempts to have him sacked</a> for allowing the publication of a dissenting article on climate change. Wattsupwiththat has recently published a <a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/01/10/the-wonderful-world-of-wikipedia/" target="_blank">post</a> which details the way in which the Wikipedia entry on the debate about the dissenting article was distorted to paint a negative picture of Professor de Freitas.</p>
<p>Whilst the post argues that there were many problems in the Wikipedia entry on the incident, it focuses on the claim that all of the peer reviewers of the dissenting article rejected the article. This claim was patently false, and relied upon a single Guardian article, which flew in the face of all of the evidence that suggested the opposite.The story does have a (sort of) happy ending, in that the post led to a correction of the article in question:</p>
<blockquote><p><strong>UPDATE:</strong> Following a conversation on Wikipedia founder Jimbo Wales’ talk page the error has been removed despite initial resistance from those who perpetrated the misinformation:</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales#Activism_at_Wikipedia.3F" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales#Activism_at_Wikipedia.3F</a></p>
<p>Also, I’d like to thank Nona, who tried to correct the error earlier as an anonymous user.</p></blockquote>
<p>I added &#8216;sort of&#8217; to the happy ending, as these ongoing attempts to smear the good name of Professor de Freitas should not be occurring in the first place. It just serves to place emphasis on the way in which some people have no qualms about presenting lies in order to preserve their world view, and the hell with the personal impact on a perfectly reputable scientist.</p>
<p>Another point mentioned in the article, of which I was previously unaware, was that Michael Mann (of hockey stick fame, and who also engaged in the conspiracy to have Professor de Freitas sacked) had complained to the <a href="http://www.presscouncil.org.nz/display_ruling.php?case_number=962" target="_blank">New Zealand Press Council </a>about a New Zealand Herald article written by Professor de Freitas:</p>
<blockquote><p>The grounds of Professor Mann’s complaint are that the two articles were inaccurate, lacked balance and showed excessive advocacy. Under lack of accuracy he said the overall tone of the articles left readers with the false impression that the jury was still out on global warming and climate change where, as far as the vast majority of the world’s climate scientists were concerned, it is not. He gave particular examples of the inaccuracies he observed, along the lines of those cited in his article.</p></blockquote>
<p>Mann had written a rebuttal of Professor de Freitas&#8217;s article, and was essentially demanding that it be published. Unsurprisingly, the complaint was not upheld, and I liked this part of the ruling:</p>
<blockquote><p>Advocates of a particular standpoint may not find the press always serving their purpose, but then the function of the press is to serve their readers in the broadest terms.</p></blockquote>
<p>In the context of what I found in the Climategate emails, I found this new information to be quite revealing. It is yet more confirmation that Mann is quite obsessive about protecting his views on climate science from any challenge whatsoever. At least in this case he seeks to address the problem with scientific argument, which is better than attempting to blacken a person&#8217;s name ( or something of an improvement on trying to get an individual sacked for allowing dissenting views).</p>
<p>However, it does bring to mind the somewhat <a href="http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2011/12/15/climategate-2-defending-the-indefensible/" target="_blank">obsessive commentary</a> on my Climategate articles by Chris C, who attempted to defend the attacks on Professor de Freitas. It crossed my mind at the time that this might be Mann posting under an alias, and the thought once again crosses my mind. Of course, I will never know, and can only speculate; it could be that Chris C was indeed just posting as &#8216;himself&#8217;.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p><strong>Update:</strong> I just took a look at the  <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Soon_and_Baliunas_controversy">debate</a> within Wikipedia on the question of the rejection by the reviewers. It is well worth a quick read&#8230;.you will need to scroll down the page and will find the section. The attempts to defend the wrong information are somewhat comedic&#8230;.</p>
<br />Filed under: <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/category/climategate-2/'>Climategate 2</a> Tagged: <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/tag/climategate-2-2/'>climategate 2</a>, <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/tag/de-freitas/'>de Freitas</a>, <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/tag/michael-mann/'>Michael Mann</a>, <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/tag/new-zealand-herald/'>New Zealand Herald</a>, <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/tag/wikipedia/'>Wikipedia</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gocomments/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/241/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/comments/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/241/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godelicious/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/241/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/delicious/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/241/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gofacebook/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/241/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/facebook/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/241/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gotwitter/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/241/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/twitter/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/241/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gostumble/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/241/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/stumble/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/241/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godigg/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/241/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/digg/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/241/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/goreddit/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/241/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/reddit/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/241/" /></a> <img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com&amp;blog=21093587&amp;post=241&amp;subd=newzealandclimatechange&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>More on Wind Power</title>
		<link>http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2012/01/14/more-on-wind-power/</link>
		<comments>http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2012/01/14/more-on-wind-power/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jan 2012 22:06:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>newzealandclimate</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Alternative Energy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Economics]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Civitas]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[energy legislation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[mott macdonald]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[wind power]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/?p=239</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have posted a few times on the use of wind power (here and here) and a new report from the UK think-tank Civitas, adds fuel to the fire of cynicism about the utility of wind power. However, before looking &#8230; <a href="http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2012/01/14/more-on-wind-power/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a><img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com&amp;blog=21093587&amp;post=239&amp;subd=newzealandclimatechange&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have posted a few times on the use of wind power (<a href="http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/tag/wind-power/">here</a> and <a href="http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2011/04/07/windpower-really/" target="_blank">here</a>) and a new <a href="http://www.civitas.org.uk/economy/electricitycosts2012.pdf" target="_blank">report</a> from the UK think-tank Civitas, adds fuel to the fire of cynicism about the utility of wind power. However, before looking at the problems of wind power, it is notable that they provide estimates of the increases in power costs of the UK&#8217;s green energy legislation, with different estimates based upon fossil fuel prices. I will provide the central estimates here:</p>
<p>Year 2020: Domestic +27%, Medium-sized business + 34%, large energy intensive large industry +8-28%</p>
<p>As they reasonably argue, these increases in costs will simply make the UK less competitive, and will simply encourage businesses to move overseas to locations where there is no similar legislation. Even if accepting that carbon dioxide is a problem, the move of businesses to other locations makes no impact upon the total emissions.</p>
<p>Moving back to the subject of wind power, some selected quotes are given below:</p>
<blockquote><p>As we have already pointed out the estimates by Mott MacDonald flatter wind-power as they made no allowance for any add-on costs. One of the main reasons is that wind-power is unreliable and requires conventional back-up generating capacity when wind speeds are, for example, very low or rapidly varying, which increases the overall costs of wind-power.</p>
<p>MacDonald assumed load factors of just 25-31% for onshore wind and 35-45% for offshore wind.4<br />
However it should be noted that even these figures for load factors can give an impression of greater reliability than is actually the case. In spells of very cold weather associated with high pressure areas, when there is enhanced demand for electricity, there tends to be very little wind. This analysis was confirmed by BBC weatherman Paul Hudson, who wrote in January 2011:5<br />
“…during the recent intense cold weather, it’s been our traditional coal and gas fired power stations that have been working flat out to keep our homes and businesses warm. And for the third winter running, the intense cold has gone hand in hand with periods of little or no wind. This should come as no surprise since prolonged cold is invariably associated with areas of high pressure”.</p>
<p>The following chart (chart 3) was included in this BBC report. Wind’s contribution to total electricity output (53,020 Megawatts) on 21 December 2010 was, according to the BBC, 0.04%. This insight is a useful answer to those who say “the wind is always blowing somewhere” in defence of wind-power. In Britain on very cold days it effectively is not. Twenty Megawatts of generation should also be seen in the context of the estimates for plant capacity.</p></blockquote>
<p>They go on to cite research that finds that maintaining back up power for wind costs between 30-45% onto the costs of wind power. Their conclusion on the real costs of wind power is very clear:</p>
<blockquote><p>The costing of wind-power electricity generation is clearly very complex. But one conclusion can safely be drawn and that is that wind-power is expensive – especially offshore. Under these circumstances it seems unwise to be embarking on a huge programme of investment in wind generated electricity, especially when the country is facing grave economic challenges. This analysis also ignores the perceived environmental costs of wind-power, especially onshore wind turbines.</p></blockquote>
<p>Although I am not concerned with carbon dioxide emissions, it is still interesting to read this in the report:</p>
<blockquote><p>In a comprehensive quantitative analysis of CO2 emissions and wind-power, Dutch physicist C. le Pair has recently shown that deploying wind turbines on “normal windy days” in the Netherlands actually increased fuel (gas) consumption, rather than saving it, when compared to electricity generation with modern high-efficiency gas turbines.7,8 Ironically and paradoxically the use of wind farms therefore actually increased CO2 emissions, compared with using efficient gas-fired combined cycle gas turbines (CCGTs) at full power.</p></blockquote>
<p>In other words, even if looking at the &#8216;green&#8217; justification for wind power, it seems that wind power is at best a dubious solution to energy provision.</p>
<p>For those that read my earlier posts on wind energy, this should all be familiar material. Problems of reliability of wind, need for back-up generation, and the location and connection of wind energy into the grid; they all make wind power  expensive. This is the conclusion of the report:</p>
<blockquote><p>It is expensive and yet it is not effective in cutting CO2 emissions. If it were not for the renewables targets set by the Renewables Directive, wind-power would not even be entertained as a cost-effective way of generating electricity or cutting emissions.</p></blockquote>
<p>From my perspective, the most interesting aspect of the report is the way in which wind power is in receipt of indirect subsidy, which are often not considered in the official reports and statistics. It is something that has (as far as I know) not been the subject of analysis in New Zealand, and I would be interested to see how wind power &#8216;stacks up&#8217; here if such a study were undertaken. Perhaps such a study is overdue, as there is a big push for yet more wind power here.</p>
<p>At the very least, the economics of wind power are extremely questionable, and the potential costs are loss of competitiveness, and higher bills for consumers. Those higher bills, of course, will have greater impact upon those on low incomes, who spend a greater proportion of their income on necessities such as power for heating.</p>
<p>Note: If you have not seen it, there is a <a href="http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/01/noaa-conducts-orwellian-revision-of-empirical-evidence/" target="_blank">very good post</a> on the manipulation of temperature data on the Climate Conversation Group. Well worth a read.</p>
<br />Filed under: <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/category/alternative-energy/'>Alternative Energy</a>, <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/category/economics/'>Economics</a> Tagged: <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/tag/civitas/'>Civitas</a>, <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/tag/energy-legislation/'>energy legislation</a>, <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/tag/mott-macdonald/'>mott macdonald</a>, <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/tag/wind-power/'>wind power</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gocomments/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/239/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/comments/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/239/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godelicious/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/239/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/delicious/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/239/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gofacebook/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/239/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/facebook/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/239/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gotwitter/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/239/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/twitter/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/239/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gostumble/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/239/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/stumble/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/239/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godigg/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/239/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/digg/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/239/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/goreddit/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/239/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/reddit/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/239/" /></a> <img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com&amp;blog=21093587&amp;post=239&amp;subd=newzealandclimatechange&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></content:encoded>
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			<media:title type="html">newzealandclimate</media:title>
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		<title>Disappointment with Gareth Morgan</title>
		<link>http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2012/01/09/disappointment-with-gareth-morgan/</link>
		<comments>http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2012/01/09/disappointment-with-gareth-morgan/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jan 2012 04:07:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>newzealandclimate</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Intolerance]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[climate change debate]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[climate change denial]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gareth Morgan]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Gareth Morgan is an economist and businessman, with a very high public profile in New Zealand, and who has waded into the climate change debate. It was just over two years ago that I saw a tour made by Gareth  &#8230; <a href="http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2012/01/09/disappointment-with-gareth-morgan/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a><img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com&amp;blog=21093587&amp;post=235&amp;subd=newzealandclimatechange&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gareth Morgan is an economist and businessman, with a very high public profile in New Zealand, and who has waded into the climate change debate. It was just over two years ago that I saw a tour made by Gareth  and his wife, in which they discussed climate change.  He had asked for two groups of scientists to provide arguments; one from the alarmist side, and one from the skeptic side. In his presentation, although he lent towards the &#8216;warmist&#8217; side of the argument, overall he tried (or so it seemed) to take a balanced view. Again, if memory serves me well, he also included some anecdotes about his own experience of climate change in his travels, which was not such a positive approach. Notwithstanding this niggle, although disagreeing, I was generally impressed that he was willing to countenance the opposing arguments (admittedly, it is a little sad when this becomes impressive).</p>
<p>Since watching the tour presentation, I did not follow Gareth&#8217;s views on climate change, assuming that he would retain the moderate and (apparently) open-minded stance that I originally saw. However, in browsing the NZ Herald (for a different reason) I stumbled on an <a href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/climate-change/news/article.cfm?c_id=26&amp;objectid=10776362" target="_blank">article</a> by Gareth, and hence the title of the post:</p>
<blockquote><p>Yesterday, we looked at how the race for resources is heating up in the Antarctic. That&#8217;s not the only thing getting hotter. In our 2009 book Poles Apart, written with John McCrystal, we surveyed the evidence for global warming. The balance of evidence points to warming as a result of burning fossil fuels.</p>
<p>To our far south lies Antarctica, a laboratory made in heaven for the study of climate change. The relatively untouched, icy environment is perfect for researching how the climate has changed in the past, as well as measuring the pace of change now under way. Nowhere on Earth is as sensitive to climate change as the polar regions.</p>
<p>Climate change deniers have enjoyed pointing out that, unlike the Arctic, Antarctica has not warmed much overall. Average temperatures across the continent haven&#8217;t really budged as yet, and in some areas like our own Ross Sea the extent of sea ice is actually increasing.</p></blockquote>
<p>There it is; the expression &#8216;climate change deniers&#8217;! With this expression any semblance of balance or open mind is flung out of the window. His tour was accompanied by a book, which I will confess that I didn&#8217;t read. I took his position from the presentation he gave and, as I said it appeared balanced. I rooted around a little, and found an article from when his book was released, and it is interesting to see what he had to say at that time:</p>
<blockquote><p>Gareth Morgan is alarmed at the level of vitriol being lobbed at him over his new climate change book. He says both sides are prone to losing their objectivity but this emotional outpouring shows exactly why it&#8217;s important to open up this discussion right now.</p>
<p>&#8220;We say in the book that the subject just gets peoples danders up and sure enough I&#8217;m getting it in the neck, again, from both sides,&#8221; says an exasperated Morgan.</p>
<p>&#8220;Still, at least when you&#8217;re getting it from both sides, you know you&#8217;re being balanced.</p>
<p>&#8220;Furious emails and blogs started coming through before the book was even out so I have no idea what they were basing their anger on. The alarmists are outraged because we, as lay people, have even deigned to wade into the debate. Aren&#8217;t we cheeky?</p>
<p>&#8220;You should see what&#8217;s on the blogs and the emails we&#8217;ve been getting. I&#8217;ve even lost a couple of KiwiSaver clients because they&#8217;re so brassed off with me. What&#8217;s that about? Where are their heads you may well ask. The emails to the TVNZ Sunday programme in response to their story were apparently toxic.</p></blockquote>
<p>So here you have it; a claim of balance, claims that the debate is toxic, claims that he stands above such behaviour, and yet the use of the expression climate change denier. It doesn&#8217;t add up, does it? I am unaware of any serious skeptical argument that ever denies that the climate changes, but nevertheless this is how Gareth portrays the views of skeptics; it is an ugly term linked to holocaust denial and is fundamentally inaccurate and malicious.</p>
<p>The sad part is that, provided people keep open minds, and look at the evidence, and make their best judgement, it is easy to take the person as acting in good faith, and at least accept their point of view. However, when a person trots out expressions like climate change denier, it is only possible to conclude that they have no interest in seeing the other side of the argument, and that they have replaced reason with rhetoric, and debate with <em>ad hominem</em> attack. As such, I must sadly conclude that one of the people I viewed as one of the good guys in the debate, is sadly a disappointment.</p>
<br />Filed under: <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/category/intolerance/'>Intolerance</a> Tagged: <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/tag/climate-change-debate/'>climate change debate</a>, <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/tag/climate-change-denial/'>climate change denial</a>, <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/tag/gareth-morgan/'>Gareth Morgan</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gocomments/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/235/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/comments/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/235/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godelicious/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/235/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/delicious/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/235/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gofacebook/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/235/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/facebook/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/235/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gotwitter/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/235/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/twitter/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/235/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gostumble/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/235/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/stumble/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/235/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godigg/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/235/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/digg/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/235/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/goreddit/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/235/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/reddit/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/235/" /></a> <img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com&amp;blog=21093587&amp;post=235&amp;subd=newzealandclimatechange&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></content:encoded>
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			<media:title type="html">newzealandclimate</media:title>
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		<title>A (belated) Congratulations to the New Zealand Herald</title>
		<link>http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2012/01/01/a-belated-congratulations-to-the-new-zealand-herald/</link>
		<comments>http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2012/01/01/a-belated-congratulations-to-the-new-zealand-herald/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Dec 2011 23:05:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>newzealandclimate</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Science Communication]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jim Hopkins]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Zealand Herald]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/?p=230</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My apologies for the lack of posts of late. This one has been at the back of my mind for some time. I have previously been very critical of the coverage of climate change in the New Zealand Herald. As &#8230; <a href="http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2012/01/01/a-belated-congratulations-to-the-new-zealand-herald/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a><img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com&amp;blog=21093587&amp;post=230&amp;subd=newzealandclimatechange&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My apologies for the lack of posts of late. This one has been at the back of my mind for some time. I have previously been very critical of the coverage of climate change in the New Zealand Herald. As such, I was pleasantly surprised to have seen an <a href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/climate-change/news/article.cfm?c_id=26&amp;objectid=10773421">article</a> which questions the validity of alarmist warming predictions by Jim Hopkins. I quote some sections below:</p>
<blockquote><p>If you&#8217;re worried about all the things you have to worry about, cheer up. Here&#8217;s one thing you won&#8217;t have to worry about any more. Global warming (remember, this was a prediction) will be the Great Disappearing Act of 2011. It will sink like a stone, exit stage left and generally melt away. Whoopee! [and]</p>
<p>We just don&#8217;t need to worry about it any more. That&#8217;s all. The prediction holds. Global warming has disappeared.</p></blockquote>
<p>It is refreshing to see that such a piece published. My view is that there is a debate, and the media should address both sides of the debate. That is, that the media should cover both the alarmist and the skeptical view points evenly, or at least give some kind of balance. As such, I am in the surprising position of saying congratulations to the New Zealand Herald.</p>
<p>However, before getting carried away, a quick search for the term climate change also pulled up an article reviewing the year for the US, and which says (emphasis added):</p>
<blockquote><p>Pipeline opponents, who included thousands of protesters outside the White House, blasted it as a retrograde step that deepened fossil fuel dependence even as a biblical succession of extreme weather &#8211; tornadoes, floods, fires, droughts and hurricanes &#8211; <strong>associated with climate change saddled the economy with 12 US$1 billion events</strong>.</p></blockquote>
<p>There is no evidence that links these kinds of extremes with climate change (e.g. see <a href="http://judithcurry.com/2011/11/18/ipcc-special-report-on-extreme-events/" target="_blank">here</a> for a commentary on a recent IPCC report by Judith Currie). The New Zealand Herald is not alone in attribution of extreme weather events to climate change, which seems to be a commonplace in many media outlets. However, it is the kind of reporting that feeds into public alarm, and does so with no science to back up the alarm.</p>
<p>However, having put this niggle out of the way, the Jim Hopkins article is a good start. All we need now is some reporting on the findings of the <a href="http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2011/08/27/new-zealand-media-a-scandalous-silence/">New Zealand Climate Science Coalition</a> (regarding the dodgy dealings on the New Zealand temperature record), and perhaps some reporting on the murky involvement of <a href="http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2011/11/27/climategate-2-and-corruption-of-peer-review/">NIWA employees</a> in the manipulation of peer review.</p>
<p>However, all credit to the NZ Herald for publishing a view from outside the alarmist camp!</p>
<p>Happy New Year and let&#8217;s hope for more balance in 2012!</p>
<br />Filed under: <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/category/science-communication/'>Science Communication</a> Tagged: <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/tag/jim-hopkins/'>Jim Hopkins</a>, <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/tag/new-zealand-herald/'>New Zealand Herald</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gocomments/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/230/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/comments/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/230/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godelicious/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/230/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/delicious/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/230/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gofacebook/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/230/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/facebook/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/230/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gotwitter/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/230/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/twitter/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/230/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gostumble/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/230/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/stumble/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/230/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godigg/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/230/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/digg/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/230/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/goreddit/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/230/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/reddit/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/230/" /></a> <img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com&amp;blog=21093587&amp;post=230&amp;subd=newzealandclimatechange&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Climategate 2 &#8211; Defending the Indefensible</title>
		<link>http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2011/12/15/climategate-2-defending-the-indefensible/</link>
		<comments>http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2011/12/15/climategate-2-defending-the-indefensible/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Dec 2011 23:16:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>newzealandclimate</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Climategate 2]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Academic Journal]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[climategate 2]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[hockey stick]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Michael Mann]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[A while ago, I wrote a post in which I put a series of Climategate emails together, and showed how the so-called &#8216;team&#8217; (a group of leading IPCC scientists), conspired to have a journal editor sacked from his role as &#8230; <a href="http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2011/12/15/climategate-2-defending-the-indefensible/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a><img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com&amp;blog=21093587&amp;post=227&amp;subd=newzealandclimatechange&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A while ago, I wrote a post in which I put a series of Climategate emails together, and showed how the so-called &#8216;team&#8217; (a group of leading IPCC scientists), conspired to have a journal editor sacked from his role as an academic journal editor, and also tried to have him sacked from his university. It is a long <a href="http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2011/11/27/climategate-2-and-corruption-of-peer-review/" target="_blank">post</a>, and continues in a second <a href="http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2011/11/28/climategate-2-and-corruption-of-peer-review-part-ii/" target="_blank">post</a>, but you may wish to read them before continuing. When writing the post, I never imagined that people might actually try to defend the &#8216;team&#8217;, as the whole series of emails are in context, and very clearly show abysmal behaviour on the part of the team.</p>
<p>However, I have just engaged in an exchange of comments with someone who is actually trying to defend the team. He is not the first person to do so in the comments section (see my last comment below, this was a commentator called &#8216;Alex C), but nevertheless I am surprised that he is mounting such a determined defence. It is just plain odd. As such, I thought I would publish our small debate. It is interesting of itself, as I believe that it is illustrative of a willful disregard for the evidence of shabby behaviour on the part of the team. My point in posting the exchange is this; I simply cannot understand the motivations for defending the indefensible.  I am just plain puzzled.</p>
<p>The comments come at the end of the post, and I simply cannot see what the commentator is trying to achieve &#8211; people will have read the emails. Why are they defending the behaviour that they are defending? Do they really believe the arguments they are putting forwards? I genuinely cannot see why they continue to defend this. With this introduction over, I will paste in the comments (I will not block quote them to avoid block quotes within block quotes which will be hard to read):</p>
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<p><strong>John C</strong></p>
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<p>How is this corruption of peer review? The mails seem to describe a situation where an editor has allowed reports for publishing that should have never passed peer review.</p>
<p>This seems to be more about the lack of peer review on part of the editor than a corruption of peer review.</p>
<p>Does the blog author agree that a scientific journal which willfully publishes poor research should lose credibility?</p>
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<p><strong>NZClimate:</strong></p>
<div>
<p>I think that you may not know what peer review actually is? The papers were, as was stated in the emails, subjected to qualified people for review.</p>
<p>As for poor research, what about the work of Michael Mann? Are you suggesting that the work behind the so-called hockey stick chart was good science? Or, like those who sought to have Professor de Freitas sacked, do you think good science only involves findings of climate alarm? Nobody who has respect for science would find the attempt to destroy a person’s career, for simply allowing a peer reviewed paper to be published, to be acceptable. The process of science involves challenge, debate, and alternative explanation….do you not understand this?</p>
<p>I do not think anyone who reads your comment will be convinced….</p>
<p>Nice try.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p><strong>John C</strong></p>
<div>
<p>How about we try to stick to the topic. Trying to change the subject is not an honest approach to debating.</p>
<p>Could you post the exact quotes that state that the papers went through actual, qualified peer review? Because this is what I’m seeing:</p>
<p>“the Soon and Baliunas work is just crap science that should never be passed peer review”</p>
<p>And another thing the e-mails seem to show is that this is not the first time de Freitas allows through papers of poor quality.</p>
<p>So again, how is this corruption of the peer review process? The actual corruption these e-mails indicate is that de Freitas allows through papers that are simply not good science, which undermines the integrity of the peer review process.</p>
<p>Do you disagree that if an editor keeps allowing poor research to be published, that is a problem? For example, an editor of a biology journal lets a creationist publish poor research attacking Evolution?</p>
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<p><strong>NZClimate</strong></p>
<div>
<p>I am sticking to the topic. You are following the ‘team’s’ method of ad hominem attack when you suggest I am not debating with an ‘an honest’ post. Michael Mann’s hockey stick has been discredited, and his presentation of his results was ‘crap science’ intended to create a false impression of the temperature record (see link below).</p>
<p><a href="http://climateaudit.org/2011/12/01/hide-the-decline-plus/" rel="nofollow">http://climateaudit.org/2011/12/01/hide-the-decline-plus/</a></p>
<p>If you read the emails, you will find that Michael Mann is front and centre in this terrible behaviour. The paper at the centre of this was work which questioned his hockey stick. Does it not seem odd to you that the very people who had such a stake in a now utterly discredited piece of work are the very same people who are trying to wreck the career of the person who allowed publication of work that went against it?</p>
<p>You correctly point out that the emails accuse Professor de Freitas of allowing other poor quality papers through. It is not the role of a cabal of people to determine/decide upon the quality of work that is published, in particular when the work just happens to be contrary to their own work. Do you not think there is a conflict of interest here??? If your approach was, for example, applied to the idea of Phlogiston, with Becker as the person who determined the ‘quality’ of all subsequent work, would modern chemistry have ever have gotten off the ground? Science advances through fits and starts, with occasional wrong turns. However, alternative explanations need to be published in order to identify when science has taken a wrong turn.</p>
<p>Also, although calling my approach ‘dishonest’ do you not think this might describe your linkage with creationism? The Soon and Baliunas paper has flaws (as do many generally good scientific papers), but it is clearly work of science. Perhaps it is not a very honest approach to set a dishonest analogy and to try to sway the minds of readers with this analogy. The work of Soon and Baliunus cannot be compared with creationism. This is a rhetorical trick.</p>
<p>Returning to the question of peer review, this is is in the emails:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>How to deal with this is unclear, since there are a number of individuals with <strong>bona fide scientific credentials</strong> who could be used by an unscrupulous editor to ensure that ‘anti-greenhouse’ science can get through the peer review process (Legates, Balling, Lindzen, Baliunas, Soon, and so on).</em></p></blockquote>
<p>I have highlighted the point about bona fide, as the paper was reviewed by scientists. The ‘team’ may not like or agree with some scientists, but they are nevertheless bona fide scientists. What the team object to is that these scientists have a different theoretical position on climate change to their own. They object to the idea that these scientists are questioning their own theory. Well, tough! If their theory is strong enough, they can defend in the peer reviewed literature, but that peer review literature must not be subject to their interference! Why, if they have such a strong case, would they resort to the kind of behaviour that is evident in the emails? Is it because, for example, they were all aware that Mann’s hockey stick would not withstand scrutiny?</p>
<p>As I said in my previous response, I do not think you understand how peer review is supposed to work. It is not about a self-selected group ensuring that only work that agrees with their own is allowed to be published, where such a group determine ‘quality’ based upon whether work supports their own theory.</p>
<p>Again, I will leave it to readers to make their own judgement.</p>
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<p><strong>John C</strong></p>
<div>
<p>That’s a lot of text. I would like to return to the core of the issue, as I am not here to discuss everything you can manage to bring up in a single comment.</p>
<p>Do you or do you not agree that if an editor keeps allowing poor research to be published, that is a problem?</p>
<p>Do you or do you not agree that the scientists you are accusing of corrupting peer review genuinely think the research was so poor it shouldn’t have been published?</p>
<p>Do you or do you not agree that the paper in question was a poor one?</p>
<p>Do you or do you not agree that if scientists notice that a journal is publishing papers that should have never been published in the first place, they are justified in dealing with that in some way?</p>
<p>Do you or do you not agree that a group of scientists should be allowed to discuss how to deal with a journal that keeps publishing poor research?</p>
<p>The reason I mentioned creationism is that it’s an easy example to use. Most rational human being reject creationism, so it’s a good way to see whether you are being consistent when you make your claims and arguments.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</p>
<p><strong>NZClimate:</strong></p>
<div>
<p>I will answer you point by point:</p>
<blockquote><p>Do you or do you not agree that if an editor keeps allowing poor research to be published, that is a problem?</p></blockquote>
<p>You are making an assumption here that the research is poor. As I have said, even good papers might have flaws. (edit) see answer below as well.</p>
<blockquote><p>Do you or do you not agree that the scientists you are accusing of corrupting peer review genuinely think the research was so poor it shouldn’t have been published?</p></blockquote>
<p>I disagree with this. I do not believe they think it is poor research, they think it disagrees with their own work. They may dress this up, and try to convince themselves, but…their own internal dissent over the hockey stick chart suggests that they put their ’cause’ above science. In particular, many of the ‘team’ expressed serious reservations about Mann’s hockey stick, but they did nothing about it. If they are the great defenders of science, why did they not immediately publish a paper to express their concerns with the validity of the hockey stick?</p>
<p><a href="http://climateaudit.org/2011/11/28/severinghaus-and-hide-the-decline/" rel="nofollow">http://climateaudit.org/2011/11/28/severinghaus-and-hide-the-decline/</a><br />
<a href="http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2011/12/2/tim-barnett-on-the-hockey-stick.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2011/12/2/tim-barnett-on-the-hockey-stick.html</a><br />
<a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/12/05/tim-barnett-on-the-hockey-stick-statistics-were-suspectthe-rest-of-the-team-knew-of-problems-with-manns-reconstruction/" rel="nofollow">http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/12/05/tim-barnett-on-the-hockey-stick-statistics-were-suspectthe-rest-of-the-team-knew-of-problems-with-manns-reconstruction/</a></p>
<p>It doesn’t quite work does it. You are trying to portray the team as a group of scientists of integrity trying to defend the world against ‘crap science’ – but it is odd, is it not, that this integrity did not include getting a rebuttal of Mann’s hockey stick into the peer reviewed literature. Clearly, the ‘team’ thought the hockey stick was highly problematic, so why not act to correct the science? In short, the harping on about science appears as a crass case of self-justification for what they knew was wrong. For example, from the emails, Wigley acknowledged the nature of what they are doing:</p>
<blockquote><p>Jim Salinger raises the more personal issue of deFreitas. He is clearly giving good science a bad name, but I do not think a barrage of ad hominem attacks or letters is the best way to counter this.</p>
<p>If Jim wishes to write a letter with multiple authors, I may be willing to sign it, but I would not write such a letter myself.</p></blockquote>
<p>Look at the email, and look who is on the distribution?</p>
<blockquote><p>Do you or do you not agree that the paper in question was a poor one?</p></blockquote>
<p>As I state in the about section of this blog, I leave the details of climate science to others. I have read in other skeptic blogs that the paper had flaws, but was overall a good paper (see link below):</p>
<p><a href="http://climateaudit.org/2011/12/06/climategate-2-0-an-ar5-perspective/" rel="nofollow">http://climateaudit.org/2011/12/06/climategate-2-0-an-ar5-perspective/</a></p>
<p>However, this is not the issue, is it? The peer reviewed literature is filled with papers with flaws, and the place to deal with these flaws is in the peer reviewed literature, not through seeking to attack individuals. This is corruption of the scientific process.</p>
<blockquote><p>Do you or do you not agree that if scientists notice that a journal is publishing papers that should have never been published in the first place, they are justified in dealing with that in some way?</p></blockquote>
<p>Again, you are making an assumption that this work should never have been published and relying upon the views of the people whose work is being questioned to say that it should not have been published. I am not sure you are getting the point here. If there were such a problem (and there is no reason to think this is the case), the proper way of ‘dealing with it’ is to seek to challenge the content in the peer reviewed literature, not to plot to damage the careers of those involved. It really is that simple…..</p>
<blockquote><p>Do you or do you not agree that a group of scientists should be allowed to discuss how to deal with a journal that keeps publishing poor research?</p></blockquote>
<p>Absolutely, if scientist believe that work is poor, then they should be able to discuss this. However, there is discussion of science, and then there is plotting to attack someone’s career through smearing their name, and running a campaign to have them sacked from an editorial position. This is not the same as discussing the merits of scientific work, is it?</p>
<p>Again, I will leave readers to judge between your defence of the emails. I do not think they will be convinced. In the end, the authors of the emails make my case for me, with their own words. When uncovering these emails, I remember my sense of shock and disgust. I am guessing that this will be the reaction of most readers, and this is reflected in most of the comments here.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>[My comment: This was sent through as I was writing this post - determined does not express this.]</p>
<p><strong>John C</strong></p>
<div>
<p>1. The first question is a general question. I did not say whether it was poor or not in this case.</p>
<p>2. Why would they lie to each other and pretend that they geninely thought the research was poor in internal e-mails? That doesn’t make sense at all.</p>
<p>3. You leave the details of climate science to others, but it is clear that the paper was a poor one, as it has received significant criticism. Indeed, Wikipedia states that “the publisher subsequently admitted that the conclusions of the paper could not be supported by the evidence and that the journal should have requested appropriate revisions prior to publication.”</p>
<p>Furthermore: “Eventually half of the journal’s editorial board resigned along with von Storch. Von Storch later stated that climate change sceptics “had identified Climate Research as a journal where some editors were not as rigorous in the review process as is otherwise common” and complained that he had been pressured to publish the paper and had not been allowed to publish a rebuttal contesting the authors’ conclusions.”</p>
<p>The issue is that an editor allegedly allowed poor research to be published. And this was not an isolated incident. There’s a major difference between finding flaws after publication, and overlooking or allowing major flaws and publishing it anyway!</p>
<p>Wikipedia links:</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sallie_Baliunas#Controversy_over_the_2003_Climate_Research_paper" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sallie_Baliunas#Controversy_over_the_2003_Climate_Research_paper</a><br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soon_and_Baliunas_controversy" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soon_and_Baliunas_controversy</a></p>
<p>Do you still deny that the paper was a poor one, and should have never been published? It seems to me that others have already looked at the details of the paper and found it lacking. Indeed, they have found that it should have never been published, and the only reason it was published is that climate skeptics had identified the journal as not having a sufficiently rigorous review process.</p>
<p>4. The question about whether poor research should be published or not is a general question again. Do you think it’s OK to publish papers that are fatally flawed to the point where they should never have been published in the first place? And if not, it must surely be OK for someone to deal with this.</p>
<p>5. You first say it’s OK to discuss how to deal with a journal which allows poor research to be published, but then you say it’s not OK anyway?</p>
<p>Do you not agree that now that we have established that the paper did indeed not qualify for publication, and the only reason it was published was that the journal had a flawed and sub-standard review process?</p>
<p>And does it not follow from that that it was necessary to do something about this, so as to prevent further pseudoscience from posing as real science?</p>
<p>What should they have done, exactly?</p>
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<p><strong>NZClimate:</strong></p>
<div>
<p>You still have not explained why the response was not that which is the normal way for science to proceed. That is, if scientists have a problem with the quality of work, they should simply respond by putting their view of why it is wrong in the peer reviewed literature. It really is that simple. There is no need to conspire to have journal editors sacked from their editorship or from their job. In the end, you are just using smoke and mirrors to try to hide the fact that this is not the way that science proceeds. You do not address the problems of Mann’s blatant misrepresentation of data in any of your emails, but still continue to harp on about the quality of the Soon and Baliunas paper? Is this not odd?</p>
<p>In the end of your email, you talk about ‘pseudo-science’. We have now moved back on to the same method you used earlier, when you linked the paper to creationism. On what basis is it pseudo-science? I took the trouble to answer all of your points, so I will now ask you to answer one for me:</p>
<p>Do you think that Mann’s misrepresentation of data in his hockey stick chart is good science or pseudo-science?</p>
<p>I ask this question, because although there were flaws (and good points) in the Soon and Baliunus paper, they did nothing comparable to what Mann did with the hockey stick chart. However, you keep on focusing on the paper. You do so, because the behaviour of the team is abysmal. This is the smoke and mirrors. However, whilst defending this group of scoundrels, you keep on suggesting that they are defending ‘science’. However, you make no acknowledgement of the crass distortion of science in the misrepresentation of data in the hockey stick chart. If I were very cynical, I might suspect that you are Michael Mann, or one of the team. I also note that another comment defending this comes from a person called ‘Alex C’ in the second of the two posts (he gives two comments, and the defence comes in the 2nd comment).</p>
<p><a href="../2011/11/28/climategate-2-and-corruption-of-peer-review-part-ii/" rel="nofollow">http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2011/11/28/climategate-2-and-corruption-of-peer-review-part-ii/</a></p>
<p>An odd coincidence that you are both posting with the same name format? However, I have assumed that you are just an interested observer, and have responded on this basis.</p>
<p>You end this comment with the question of ‘what should they have done exactly?’</p>
<p>I think I have answered this question so many times, I am puzzled that you continue to ask. Endless repetition of the question does not change the answer. As such I will both say what they should and should not have done:</p>
<p>What they should have done: It is so, so simple. If they felt that a paper was wrong, they should simply write a paper and seek to publish it in the peer reviewed literature.</p>
<p>What they should not have done: They should not have conspired to have an editor sacked, should not have smeared his good name, and should not have sought to have him sacked from his job at his university.</p>
<p>I am sure that you can keep on going. I am sure that you will….I will let you have the last word here and will not respond further – life is too short and, more to the point, I will let readers judge for themselves. I really see no point in going forwards. I am also so puzzled by your determination to defend this behaviour that I am making a post out of our exchange here (you will be able to find it on the home page in a short while. I am genuinely puzzled at your determination to defend these people, and their shabby behaviour. Again, I am working on the assumption that you are just a genuinely interested party.</p>
<p>Over to you for (I hope) a final comment.</p>
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<p>That is the end of the exchange so far. No doubt, the commentator will respond, and you will find his answer in the comments section of the <a href="http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2011/11/27/climategate-2-and-corruption-of-peer-review/" target="_blank">post</a>. It really is odd, the accusation of Soon and Balunias as being pseudoscience, but no comment on the misrepresentation of data by Mann. All very, very odd. Comments, thoughts, explanations for this kind of determination to defend this are welcome.</p>
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		<title>Economic Impacts of Climate Change Policy</title>
		<link>http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2011/12/11/economic-impacts-of-climate-change-policy/</link>
		<comments>http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2011/12/11/economic-impacts-of-climate-change-policy/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Dec 2011 00:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>newzealandclimate</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Economics]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Economic Impacts]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gail Tverberg]]></category>
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		<description><![CDATA[I have a couple of posts sitting half completed, but felt compelled to write on a fascinating and insightful analysis that I picked up from Climate etc. It is an extract from a blog post called Our Finite World, and &#8230; <a href="http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2011/12/11/economic-impacts-of-climate-change-policy/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a><img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com&amp;blog=21093587&amp;post=222&amp;subd=newzealandclimatechange&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a couple of posts sitting half completed, but felt compelled to write on a fascinating and insightful analysis that I picked up from <a href="http://judithcurry.com/2011/12/06/kyoto-protocol-unintended-consequences/" target="_blank">Climate etc</a>. It is an extract from a blog post called Our Finite World, and the relevant material can be found <a href="http://ourfiniteworld.com/2011/11/15/is-it-really-possible-to-decouple-gdp-growth-from-energy-growth/" target="_blank">here</a> and <a href="http://ourfiniteworld.com/2011/11/15/is-it-really-possible-to-decouple-gdp-growth-from-energy-growth/" target="_blank">here</a>. The author <a href="http://ourfiniteworld.com/about/" target="_blank">Gail Tverberg</a> is an actuary and her primary area of interest is oil supply. In the first post, Gail looks at energy use and GDP for both emerging and developing economies. She notes that world-wide energy intensity in relation to GDP has been flat, and then asks how it is possible that several countries have been decreasing the energy intensity of their economies:</p>
<blockquote><p>We are dealing with a large number of countries with very different energy intensities. The big issue would seem to be outsourcing of heavy manufacturing. This makes the energy intensity of the country losing the manufacturing look better. Outsourcing transfers manufacturing to a country with a much higher energy intensity, so even with the new manufacturing, its ratio can still look better (lower). It is hard to measure the overall impact of outsourcing, except by looking at world total energy intensities rather than individual country amounts.</p></blockquote>
<p>In both of the posts, Gail fills the pages with charts, data and analysis, so I cannot do justice to her work in a summary. However, there are two points (of three) that I found to be of particular interest, and I quote these below:</p>
<blockquote><p>1. The industrialization of Southeast Asia has allowed importers from around the world to reduce their energy intensity of GDP, but much of the savings has been offset by greater energy use (largely coal) in Southeast Asia. On a CO2 basis, we are likely  worse off, because of this transfer.</p>
<p>2. There is no evidence that the Kyoto Protocol reduced worldwide CO2 emissions. In fact, to the extent that it encouraged outsourcing of industrial production to the Far East and made goods from the Far East more competitive, it may have contributed to rising world CO2 emissions. It would appear that a different approach is needed that recognizes the fact that fuels are part of a world market. Fuel savings in one part of the world are not necessarily helpful for the world as a whole.</p></blockquote>
<p>I have not read much else from the blog, but I would guess from the general discussions that Gail is on the &#8216;warmer&#8217; side of the climate debate. However, she is capturing something that I (from a skeptic standpoint) have always been concerned about. In some respects, the negative economic impact of climate change mitigation upon the developed world has been discussed before. For example, this UK economics blog <a href="http://cynicuseconomicus.blogspot.com/2009/12/climategate-and-economics.html" target="_blank">discusses</a> the issue of the original Climategate emails in the context of economics, and cites an article from Christopher Booker (I have not found the original) as follows:</p>
<blockquote><p>The real gain to Corus from stopping production at Redcar, however, is the saving it will make on its carbon allowances, allocated by the EU under its Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS). By ceasing to emit a potential six million tonnes of CO2 a year, Corus will benefit from carbon allowances which could soon, according to European Commission projections, be worth up to £600 million over the three years before current allocations expire.</p>
<p>But this is only half the story. In India, Corus&#8217;s owner, Tata, plans to increase steel production from 53 million tonnes to 124 million over the same period. By replacing inefficient old plants with new ones which emit only &#8220;European levels&#8221; of CO2, Tata could claim a further £600 million under the UN&#8217;s Clean Development Mechanism, which is operated by the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change – the organisers of the Copenhagen conference. Under this scheme, organisations in developed countries such as Britain – ranging from electricity supply companies to the NHS – can buy the right to exceed their CO2 allocations from those in developing countries, such as India. The huge but hidden cost of these &#8220;carbon permits&#8221; will be passed on to all of us, notably through our electricity bills.</p></blockquote>
<p>It is all fairly obvious really; if you enact these carbon dioxide emission schemes in a lopsided way, energy usage will shift to those countries that are low cost. In essence, these schemes are a driver of the hollowing out of developed country energy intensive manufacturing, and have no doubt been a contributor to the rapid growth of emerging economies. The great thing about Gails&#8217; posts are that they present the case with such startling clarity.</p>
<p>The broad economic impacts of this shift in energy intensive manufacturing from developed economies are fairly obvious; negative impact upon balance of trade and less economic growth than would be the case if Kyoto had not been enacted.</p>
<p>This is all well and good to point out, but it is another element of the impact of this shift that worries me. Manufacturing jobs employ large numbers of workers who earn a good wage in comparison to service industries, for example in compared to shop workers. In particular, manufacturing tends to develop highly paid skilled workers, and this is a concern I would like to highlight. When policy such as Kyoto are enacted, they have real impact on both the economy but also the potential for ordinary people in a developed economy to have a better standard of living.</p>
<p>The trouble is that, for most people, their main source of news is a media that has accepted the climate alarmist story, and often reports on climate change in a way that is clearly biased towards alarm (I have written several posts on this subject). They entirely neglect the potential for negative consequences, even though those consequences will eventually impact upon their readers/viewers. There are a few lonely voices such as Christopher Booker who point out these real impacts but most people will never hear of such impacts (unless it is their job that is being lost).</p>
<p>Instead, what we have is promises of &#8216;green jobs&#8217; and the media seem to go along with this. However, as every country is using the same promise, we come to a point where it becomes impossible for every country to generate enough of these &#8216;green jobs&#8217; to offset the losses. More disturbingly, if those jobs (e.g. manufacture of wind turbines) are reliant on intensive energy use, they will in any case end up being outsourced to developing economies. As such, it is interesting to find that <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wind_turbine_manufacturers" target="_blank">five out of the ten</a> largest manufacturers Chinese and Indian, and that they together have a large market share. They are getting the benefits of these &#8216;green jobs&#8217; but with none of the associated pain. And that pain is the loss of highly skilled, well paid manufacturing jobs in developed economies.</p>
<p>Note: For this post, I am not going into some of the complexities of the knock on impacts of loss of manufacturing,  or how the impacts of &#8216;green&#8217; policy are calculated/considered, as I want to keep the post focused.</p>
<br />Filed under: <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/category/economics/'>Economics</a>, <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/category/media/'>Media</a> Tagged: <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/tag/economic-impacts/'>Economic Impacts</a>, <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/tag/gail-tverberg/'>Gail Tverberg</a>, <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/tag/green-jobs/'>Green Jobs</a>, <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/tag/kyoto-protocol/'>Kyoto Protocol</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gocomments/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/222/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/comments/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/222/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godelicious/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/222/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/delicious/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/222/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gofacebook/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/222/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/facebook/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/222/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gotwitter/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/222/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/twitter/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/222/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gostumble/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/222/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/stumble/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/222/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godigg/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/222/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/digg/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/222/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/goreddit/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/222/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/reddit/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/222/" /></a> <img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com&amp;blog=21093587&amp;post=222&amp;subd=newzealandclimatechange&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></content:encoded>
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			<media:title type="html">newzealandclimate</media:title>
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		<title>Climategate 2: What can we make of this?</title>
		<link>http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2011/12/01/climategate-2-what-can-we-make-of-this/</link>
		<comments>http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2011/12/01/climategate-2-what-can-we-make-of-this/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Dec 2011 03:09:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>newzealandclimate</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Climategate 2]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[climategate 2]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Neil Plummer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Phil Jones]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Thomas Peterson]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[I have been trawling through some more Climategate 2 emails, and came across a brief exchange (email o222 of 2005). I may be wrong, but I am not sure I have seen this one in the many discussion of the &#8230; <a href="http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2011/12/01/climategate-2-what-can-we-make-of-this/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a><img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com&amp;blog=21093587&amp;post=219&amp;subd=newzealandclimatechange&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been trawling through some more Climategate 2 emails, and came across a brief exchange (email <a href="http://di2.nu/foia/foia2011/mail/0222.txt">o222</a> of 2005). I may be wrong, but I am not sure I have seen this one in the many discussion of the emails. As before, I have tidied up the email by removing symbols such as &gt;&gt;&gt;, and any <strong>bold in the text is my emphasis</strong>.</p>
<blockquote><p>cc: &#8220;Thomas C Peterson&#8221; &lt;Thomas.C.Peterson@noaa.gov&gt;<br />
date: Thu Jan  6 08:54:58 2005<br />
from: Phil Jones &lt;p.jones@uea.ac.uk&gt;<br />
subject: RE: Fwd: Monthly CLIMATbulletins<br />
to: &#8220;Parker, David (Met Office)&#8221; &lt;david.parker@metoffice.gov.uk&gt;, Neil Plummer &lt;n.plummer@bom.gov.au&gt;</p>
<p>Neil,</p>
<p>Just to reiterate David&#8217;s points, I&#8217;m hoping that IPCC will stick with 1961-90.<strong>The issue of confusing users/media with new anomalies from a</strong><br />
<strong>different base period is the key one in my mind</strong>. Arguments about the 1990s being better observed than the 1960s don&#8217;t hold too much water with me.</p>
<p>There is some discussion of going to 1981-2000 to help the modelling chapters. If we <strong>do this it will be a bit of a bodge</strong> as it will be hard to do things properly for the surface temp and precip as we&#8217;d lose loads of stations with long records that would then have incomplete normals. If we do we will likely achieve it by rezeroing series and maps <strong>in an ad hoc way</strong>.There won&#8217;t be any move by IPCC to go for 1971-2000, as it won&#8217;t  help with satellite series or the models.  1981-2000 helps with MSU series and the much better Reanalyses and also globally-complete SST. 20 years (1981-2000) isn&#8217;t 30 years, but the rationale for 30 years isn&#8217;t that compelling. The original argument was for 35 years around 1900 because Bruckner found 35 cycles in some west Russian lakes (hence periods like 1881-1915). This went to 30 as it easier to compute.</p>
<p>Personally I don&#8217;t want to change the base period till after I retire !</p>
<p>Cheers<br />
Phil</p>
<p>At 09:22 05/01/2005, Parker, David (Met Office) wrote:</p>
<p>Neil,</p>
<p>There is a preference in the atmospheric observations chapter of IPCC AR4 to stay with the 1961-1990 normals. <strong>This is partly because a change of normals confuses users, e.g. anomalies will seem less positive than before if we change to newer normals, so the impression of global warming will be muted</strong>. Also we may wish to wait till there are 30 years of satellite data, i.e until we can compute 1981-2010 normals, which will then be globally complete for some parameters like sea surface temperature.</p>
<p>Regards<br />
David</p>
<p>On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 21:58, Neil Plummer wrote:</p>
<p>Hi Hama, Tom<br />
(and David, Blair)</p>
<p>Re: the issue of using the 1971-2000 normals in CLIMAT rather than 1961-1990 normals.</p>
<p>Happy New Year!</p>
<p>I have copied the relevant text from CCl XIII below, which provides reasons for staying with the 1961-90 standard. My initial recommendation is the same as Tom&#8217;s, i.e. stay with the standard for now.</p>
<p>I think there are two main factors to consider here &#8211; capability and demand. While there are clearly advantages with widespread use of normals derived using the later period there must be the capacity to do so.Perhaps in the lead-up to CCl-XIV, OPAG 2 can find out the extent of the support for the change among users of CLIMAT and OPAG 1 can find out more about capabilities. (Note, however, that this is not strictly on issue for OPAG 1 according to the ToRs for the ICT and any of the ETs. Happy to assist though).</p>
<p>We may use the climate working groups in the Regional Associations to  assist with surveying members capabilities and could do the same regarding the demand question though I think Tom&#8217;s CCl/CLIVAR ET is best placed to give that guidance.</p>
<p>David, Blair &#8211; Interested in your thoughts on this matter.<br />
Cheers<br />
Neil</p></blockquote>
<p>The email round commenced with a request for a clarification from the Turkish meteorological office on the . I will leave the technical points to other who have a better understanding of the issues that are being discussed. However, I was fascinated to see firstly that Phil Jones was putting confusing the media as a key concern. And then there is the worry of Parker that the impression of global warming would be muted! Note the use of the word &#8216;impression&#8217;. Does this sound like he is worrying about the science?</p>
<p>Again, here we have emails in their context, and the phrases in their full context, and two clear statements that the media and impressions are the priority over the science. Oh dear, oh dear&#8230;.</p>
<p>Note: Two phrases which are highlighted, I will leave for others to consider who have the technical knowledge to do so.</p>
<br />Filed under: <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/category/climategate-2/'>Climategate 2</a> Tagged: <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/tag/climategate-2-2/'>climategate 2</a>, <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/tag/neil-plummer/'>Neil Plummer</a>, <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/tag/phil-jones/'>Phil Jones</a>, <a href='http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/tag/thomas-peterson/'>Thomas Peterson</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gocomments/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/219/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/comments/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/219/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godelicious/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/219/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/delicious/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/219/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gofacebook/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/219/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/facebook/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/219/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gotwitter/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/219/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/twitter/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/219/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/gostumble/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/219/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/stumble/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/219/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/godigg/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/219/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/digg/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/219/" /></a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/goreddit/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/219/"><img alt="" border="0" src="http://feeds.wordpress.com/1.0/reddit/newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/219/" /></a> <img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com&amp;blog=21093587&amp;post=219&amp;subd=newzealandclimatechange&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Climategate 2: More Shabby Behaviour From the &#8216;Team&#8217;</title>
		<link>http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2011/12/01/climategate-2-more-shabby-behaviour-from-the-team/</link>
		<comments>http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2011/12/01/climategate-2-more-shabby-behaviour-from-the-team/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2011 22:22:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>newzealandclimate</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Climategate 2]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[climategate 2]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[de Freitas]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gavin Schmidt]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Michael Mann]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[RealClimate]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[In two recent posts (here and here), I detailed some emails from Climategate 2 which showed that leading IPCC scientists (often known as the &#8216;team&#8217;) conspired to pervert the editorial system of academic journals and sought to have Professor Chris &#8230; <a href="http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2011/12/01/climategate-2-more-shabby-behaviour-from-the-team/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a><img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com&amp;blog=21093587&amp;post=214&amp;subd=newzealandclimatechange&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In two recent posts (<a href="http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2011/11/27/climategate-2-and-corruption-of-peer-review/">here</a> and <a href="http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2011/11/28/climategate-2-and-corruption-of-peer-review-part-ii/">here</a>), I detailed some emails from Climategate 2 which showed that leading IPCC scientists (often known as the &#8216;team&#8217;) conspired to pervert the editorial system of academic journals and sought to have Professor Chris de Freitas, editor of the academic journal Climate Research, sacked from his university and editorial role. The reason for the action was that he had allowed the publication of a paper which challenged the now infamous &#8216;hockey stick&#8217; chart, which wrongly showed that the current warming of the planet was unprecedented. The hockey stick chart was the work of Michael Mann, one of the members of the &#8216;team&#8217;.</p>
<p>The emails I detail are not the only ones showing this kind of outrageous behaviour. <a href="http://climateaudit.org/2011/11/28/direct-action-at-harvard/">Steve McIntyre</a> also details attempts to smear the good name of one of the authors of the paper that challenged the hockey stick. It is possible to see a pattern of behaviour. The problem is that the &#8216;team&#8217; are still up to the same ugly tricks, despite the exposure of this behaviour in the Climategate emails. They are still using smear tactics, and still attacking the good name of Professor de Freitas. They appear to believe that they can act with complete impunity. I added the following as an update on the second of my posts, but I believe it deserves more attention. The <a href="http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2011/11/two-year-old-turkey/comment-page-9/">quote</a> comes from the &#8216;team&#8217; website &#8216;RealClimate&#8217;, and a commentator asks a question, with a member of the &#8216;team&#8217; responding:</p>
<blockquote><p>Any context on this thread – which might be interpreted to constitute a coordinated effort to have someone dismissed for not following the party line?</p>
<p><a href="../2011/11/27/climategate-2-and-corruption-of-peer-review/" rel="nofollow">http://newzealandclimatechange.wordpress.com/2011/11/27/climategate-2-and-corruption-of-peer-review/</a></p>
<p>[<strong>Response:</strong> The issue has nothing to do with not 'following the party line', but rather of being guilty of appalling editorial practices, whereby papers were published with claims that were not justified by the analysis, or that were accepted almost 'as is' regardless of the views of referees. Hans von Storch in email 2106: "For me it is important that we admit that the result of the review process of Soon &amp; Baliunas was insufficient", and noting the pattern "We should have been more vigilant after we had seen that actually two critical comments were written on the first Soon paper" (also handled by de Freitas). The corruption here was de Frietas, not anyone who responded. - gavin]</p></blockquote>
<p>It is apparent that this new attempt to smear Professor de Freitas is being replicated in comments on the Climategate emails. <a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/27/the-tribalistic-corruption-of-peer-review-the-chris-de-freitas-incident/">Wattsupwiththat</a> linked to the posts made on this blog, and comments on the the Wattsupwiththat post included the following:</p>
<blockquote>
<div><cite>JPY</cite> says:</div>
<div><a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/27/the-tribalistic-corruption-of-peer-review-the-chris-de-freitas-incident/#comment-810791"> November 27, 2011 at 5:22 pm</a></div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<blockquote><p>Another classic black=white, war=peace post from WUWT.</p>
<p>The corruption of peer review happened under de Freitas’s watch – he passed papers that reviewers had recommended to be rejected essentially unaltered into the journal (ref. Wigley comments). Even Hans von Storch agreed that the S&amp;B paper made claims that were not justified by their analysis. The corruption here is all on the skeptic side and the natural reaction to a disfunctional journal is to abandon it.</p></blockquote>
</div>
<p>It is not possible to demonstrate that this comment is made by one of the &#8216;team&#8217;, but  the commentator seems very knowledgeable about the background to the story, and follows the lead of RealClimate very closely. Also, anyone who read the post on the subject on this blog, and I mean anyone with any sense of decency, would surely not come to the conclusion shown by JPY in this comment. I cannot be sure, but my guess is that the comment above is from one of the &#8216;team&#8217;.</p>
<p>As a backgrounder, for those of you who are unfamiliar with RealClimate, it is run by the &#8216;team&#8217; to promote their particular views of climate science. The Climategate emails (Email No. <a href="http://www.ecowho.com/foia.php?file=4349.txt&amp;search=realclimate">4349</a> ) show that the &#8216;team&#8217;,  established the website with the intention that:</p>
<blockquote><p>We are keeping the content strictly scientific, though at an accessible level.</p></blockquote>
<p>If we compare the intention with the quote on RealClimate, we can see what their idea of &#8216;strictly scientific&#8217; actually is. The person replying to the enquiry is Gavin Schmidt, and it is notable that other contributors to the site includes other &#8216;team&#8217; members such as Michael Mann.</p>
<p>If there is any doubt that this is smearing of the good name of Professor de Freitas, he has recently <a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/28/a-response-from-chris-de-freitas/">posted</a> the following email that demonstrates that the team were smearing his good name and reputation:</p>
<blockquote><p>Thu, 3 July 2003 12:42:48 +0200<br />
To CLIMATE RESEARCH<br />
Editors and Review Editors</p>
<p>Dear colleagues,</p>
<p>In my 20.06. email to you I stated, among other things, that I would ask CR editor Chris de Freitas to present to me copies of the reviewers’ evaluations for the 2 Soon et al. papers.</p>
<p>I have received and studied the material requested.</p>
<p>Conclusions:</p>
<p>1) The reviewers consulted (4 for each ms) by the editor presented detailed, critical and helpful evaluations</p>
<p>2) The editor properly analyzed the evaluations and requested appropriate revisions.</p>
<p>3) The authors revised their manuscripts accordingly.</p>
<p>Summary:</p>
<p>Chris de Freitas has done a good and correct job as editor.</p>
<p>Best wishes,<br />
Otto Kinne<br />
Director, Inter-Research</p></blockquote>
<p>It is very apparent from the email above that Professor de Freitas conducted himself in his role as a Climate Research editor in a way that was above reproach. However, this has not stopped RealClimate from continuing to smear his name, even going as far as accusing Professor de Freitas of &#8216;corruption&#8217;. Professor de Freitas, the subject of these smears and attacks is an accomplished scientist, as <a href="http://web.env.auckland.ac.nz/people_profiles/defreitas_c/">his record</a> shows. For those who are not academics, his publication record, and his record in winning awards is indicative of a genuinely outstanding scientist.</p>
<p>My concern is this. Rather than the first Climategate emails acting as a check on the disgusting behaviour of the team, it seems to have just emboldened them. Whilst the Climategate emails were kept private, the RealClimate attempt to yet again blacken the name of Professor de Freitas is aired in public, with Schmidt even putting his name to the response to the comment. Following the first Climategate emails, several enquiries were conducted into the behaviour of &#8216;team&#8217; members as a result of some of the revelations in the emails. However, as many who have examined the enquiries have found, they would be best described as &#8216;whitewash&#8217; (just one example of why can be found <a href="http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2010/7/18/more-on-oxburghs-eleven.html">here</a>).</p>
<p>I believe that what we see on RealClimate is a direct result of the whitewash. The team have seen the media and establishment continue to support them in the face of their disgraceful behaviour, and they now arrogantly believe that they can act with impunity. This raises a troubling question. With Climategate 2, we can now see ever more clearly the extent of the disgraceful behaviour of the &#8216;team&#8217;. My worry is that, outside of the skeptical blogs, and a limited number of mainstream media commentators, will Climategate 2 really make a difference? More to the point, what can those of us that are concerned about this sordid behaviour do to ensure that, this time, something will actually be done about this terrible behaviour?</p>
<p>It is a question that those who are concerned about this shoddy behaviour should all be contemplating. Comments and thoughts welcomed.</p>
<p><strong>Update, 1st December.</strong></p>
<p>The attack on Professor de Freitas is once again intensifying. A <a href="http://hot-topic.co.nz/put-it-there-pal/" target="_blank">post</a> in Hot Topic says the following:</p>
<blockquote><p>Unfortunately for Watts and the anonymous (and low profile) NZ blogger who wrote the article, a <a href="http://www.desmogblog.com/skeptics-prefer-pal-review-over-peer-review-chris-de-freitas-pat-michaels-and-their-pals-1997-2003">new analysis by John Mashey</a> of 700+ papers published at <a href="http://www.int-res.com/journals/cr/"><em>Climate Research</em></a> reveals that the tribalism on display came from a cabal of sceptical scientists, with Auckland University academic <a href="http://hot-topic.co.nz/tag/chris-de-freitas/">Chris de Freitas</a> safely shepherding their papers — however poor the science they contained — through peer pal review.</p></blockquote>
<p>The study cited in the post would be funny, if it were not for the fact that this is, yet again, an unwarranted attack. Richard Treadgold of the <a href="http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/" target="_blank">Climate Conversation Group</a> kindly posted a comment to clarify the source and background to the latest attempt to smear Professor de Freitas:</p>
<blockquote><p>Renowden examines “a new analysis by John Mashey of 700+ papers published at Climate Research” as though it were significant. But I’ve looked up this “paper”. It hasn’t been peer-reviewed or published in any decent journal, only published informally by his pals at the desmogblog blog.</p>
<p>Renowden usually insists on citations of only peer-reviewed material, just like the IPCC. But not on this special occasion.</p>
<p>Why do we pay either the analysis or Renowden’s comments on it the slightest attention? It’s all worth exactly what the blog site paid for the “paper”.</p></blockquote>
<p>Enough said. However, there is a very small upside to the latest smear. I have seen from my site statistics that this latest smear is driving traffic to the posts on the original emails. Of course, for those people who follow the links to the original emails, they will get the chance to make up their own minds. When they see the emails and their contents in black and white, I have no doubt that they will see the work of the &#8216;team&#8217; for what it is. As such, although the Hot Topic post and the &#8216;study&#8217; are further examples of ugly behaviour, we can at least thank the authors for driving traffic to the information which will demonstrate that their latest smear is just that; a smear.</p>
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